In today’s episode we are joined by Kelly Schuknecht, Director of Marketing and Stephen Pope, founder of SGP Labs to discuss the importance of incorporating videos in your marketing strategy. He talks about how videos can help you grow and scale your business and help you reach your target audience better.
Quote
“If you want to be a big business that continues to grow with some scale, then you need to learn how to use these.” - Stephen Pope
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Jamie Nau: All right Kelly, I'm excited for this podcast today. How about you?
Kelly Schuknecht: Yeah, Stephen Pope, one of my favorites.
Jamie Nau: You have been working for Stephen for how long now?
Kelly Schuknecht: Oh, gosh. I don't know, several months. I signed up for his course maybe six months or so ago. I went through his course, and part of the course includes a weekly again, I don't know if I'm calling it the right thing, but a mastermind group. So like kind of a networking group for everyone going through the course. So it's really great. Everyone kind of talks through like where they're at with what they're learning, and gets feedback from each other. and just kind of talks through challenges and things like that. So it's been really, really helpful for our marketing team.
Jamie Nau: Yeah. So we spend a lot of time on this podcast talking about video. So I think I can blame Stephen for you constantly getting on me about turning my video on and doing recordings. So I think it's a great topic. But yeah, I think I mean, what brought you to having that goal for this year? Is it something you saw other companies doing or something that you kind of thought we needed to do?
Kelly Schuknecht: You know, I came on with Summit a couple of years ago, two or three years ago. One of the things that stuck out to me when I came on the team is that Summit is very video first. Back before the pandemic at that time, we would sometimes have meetings with companies where, you know, we would get on video and they wouldn't. They wouldn't have their video turned on or, you know, I heard stories of when Summit first went to video, before I came on the team, that employees were a little resistant to video. It's something I don’t see now because everyone always has their videos on. I realized it's really central to our culture. It's really central to who we are. You know, we all work all over the country. I feel like I know you guys better. You know, the team members are not only all over the US, but I have a team member in the Philippines and I know everyone very well. Like, I hang out with them every day because we're on video. So for me, I really wanted to showcase that. I thought that people seeing that side of Summit’s culture in our marketing, really would help them see who we are better, and it really has I think made a really big difference for us.
Jamie Nau: Yeah. I agree with you. I know when I first started at Summit and went to my first retreat and just like you said, you felt like you knew each other. I mean, you felt like the second you walked into the room again, there's always a second or two of awkwardness where you're just like oh, I know this person really well but I've never seen them before. It's been like nine months since I have seen them in person. But then after that, it's like you're back to being old friends. So I do think video is definitely a big part of our culture. I'm glad you brought Stephen on. I think this is a really great topic and I'm excited for our listeners to hear it.
Kelly Schuknecht: Yeah. I think Stephen has lots of great things to teach, and can help challenge us to be more video forward in our work.
Jamie Nau: Hello and welcome to today's podcast. I am very excited about this podcast because the first time I do not have Jody or Adam with me today, so we get to have a little more fun than we normally do. I'm joined by Kelly, who is our Marketing Director, and I'm also joined by Stephen Pope, who is the founder of SGP Labs. I'm going to let him do his introduction, but I'm really excited to talk about some marketing concepts that he's promoting out there. So Steven, you want to do a quick introduction for us?
Stephen Pope: Thanks for having me on. I'm Stephen Pope and I run a Thought Leadership Accelerator Program that basically helps professional service firms use their expertise to get business, you know, to get inbound leads. I do that with a combination of content marketing, social media and, you know, using those things to build awareness about your brand, build trust in and what you do, and ultimately get people reaching out to work with you.
Jamie Nau: Great. I appreciate the quick introduction. Now, Kelly, we've been working with Stephen for a while now. So do you want to just talk about our connection there and how working with Stephen has worked for us.
Kelly Schuknecht: Yeah. Stephen I may not say this right, you may have to clarify what I say, but we also joined the mastermind group, is that what you call it?
Stephen Pope: Yeah. The Digital Masters Group.
Kelly Schuknecht: Digital Masters Group, yes, so I go every week I just never remember what it's called exactly. So we signed up for that course with Stephen. Went through his course and he also has a weekly group meeting for anyone that's going through the course, so that has been my favorite part. I really enjoy the interaction with other people that are going through it and learning from Stephen. So we actually made one of our goals last year for my team in marketing was to really work on our video marketing. We identified that in the accounting industry typically accountants don't do video. I actually signed up for a couple of webinars, not as an accountant, but just to kind of go and experience them and realize that accountants typically will do webinars with just slides and not video. Video is a really big part of our culture. At Summit, everything we do is on video. So I wanted to show that more to the world. And so I think Adam introduced me to Stephen and we talked about this course that he was launching. So I really wanted to take part in that and learn what we could be doing. You know, just the video, kind of the logistics of everything, like not just how to record the video, but it's like how to do all this stuff. Like you record a video, then what do you do with it? Then we really focused a lot on LinkedIn. If you follow any of our people, Adam, Jody, Jamie, Tom with us from our CFO community, if you follow those folks, you're going to see video on their profiles a lot, because Stephen taught us how to do some of that. So that's kind of our involvement. But, Stephen, you can better explain your course, because I just know kind of what I've learned from it, but that's just a piece of it.
Stephen Pope: I think in general, just like in the course or just when I'm talking to people, I think one of the main things I'm just trying to encourage people is just as to use video. Then going beyond because everyone says that you get that from a lot of different people. It's like use video, use video, but it's kind of explaining why. And then, you know, and the reasons why is because it gives people exposure to your personality. It you know, we all focus a lot on our websites and in a lot of ways, our websites are becoming more and more obsolete because everybody has a website. They all claim to do similar things. We all claim to be the best at what we do better than everyone else. We do the best results. But now that everyone's saying that one of the easiest ways to kind of differentiate yourself is really just to be on video and to show who you are, show your personality, show how you come across, how you articulate yourself, how you educate people. So number one I'm always teaching, why do we do it? Then number two, now that we know we should be doing it how do you actually get on camera, you know, articulate something important? Then after that how do you actually get this into your process, your daily or weekly process so that it's consistent because just doing it once isn't going to be enough because there's other people. So it's just like, how you do it? Why do you do it? How do you get over the different things that keep us from doing it like imposter syndrome, little things like that or big things like that. Then how do you just make it consistent and part of your flow so that it doesn't take over your team. It doesn't take over all the things you need to do because you've got a bunch of other things you've got to do as well. So it's like, how do you make this practical and then how do you improve it over time?
Jamie Nau: I think the big thing here at Summit is, we're extremely comfortable on camera. We're on camera all day long. But I think that also is a detriment to us sometimes when it comes to recording these things, because, you know, I'm so comfortable on camera because I'm with my clients all the time and I'm with Kelly or people at work every time we're in a room or on camera. But there's a difference when you're recording because if I was walking around or if I was doing something while I'm recording here, which I'm more comfortable doing, it's just different sitting here and looking at a screen and just talking. So it took a while to get over that hump for us. Is that something pretty common you see for companies like us that are so used to using cameras?
Stephen Pope: I guess I would say you guys are an exception in a lot of ways because a lot of companies just aren't doing video at all. I guess one thing that's been good about the pandemic is that most people show up to some meetings and have their camera on. I remember before the pandemic people would show up in meetings and they wouldn't have their camera on.
Kelly Schuknecht: Yup. It kind of forced to get over the fear of it. It's just a reality of working from home. And you don't have to be afraid of it. It’s okay to be on video. To what you were saying Jamie, I think sometimes we will be so comfortable. It's like we have meetings where, you know, you're eating lunch or you're you know, you're looking at another screen. But like, we know that we're talking to each other. That's fine. But then when you're doing something like if you're going to put it on LinkedIn, you kind of need to be like looking at the camera, you know, totally like in that zone.
Jamie Nau: With the podcast we recorded all of them. In some of them we are like, oh my gosh I'm looking at the wrong screen. You are very critical of yourself. We've been recording a lot more lately.
Kelly Schuknecht: Well one of the things Stephen teaches is it's okay to not be perfect. That shows you are real. It’s okay to be yourself.
Stephen Pope: Then the other thing that's kind of fun. This is kind of where I have a lot of fun with clients is like helping them brainstorm something that's going to work for them. So there's obviously the type of videos where you get up on the video and you've kind of got a script that you're going through and you work through it and you're looking at the camera and you're being very specific. Those take a little bit more practice to get good at those. You kind of have to think about how do you want to lay out the message? What's the framework that you're kind of delivering the message? But then there's other interesting ways as well, like just doing a podcast like we're recording this. It's on video. You know, you make sure you're presenting yourself well. You've got your background organized. So you're doing a few things. But at the same time, you're just coming on and having a casual conversation. Typically you can just kind of start to get into the mood and almost forget that you're on camera and then you're just having a good conversation. If you're strategic about it and you kind of think about how you're going to go back through that video, there's things that you can pull from it. You can publish the whole thing. You can publish little bits of it. And, you know, that's an easy way to get started. In the end, the interesting thing is, is that as you start to do these things and this is why it's important not to make it perfect, is that it’s impossible to, right? So if you try to make it perfect, you never will. Then you never learn the skills along the way. Like I started posting on LinkedIn about a year ago video. If you go back to look at my first video, I'm really tense. I look really, really stressed out. I just had to kind of go through those things. There's things you can do to accelerate it. But, you know, you've got to go through the process.
Kelly Schuknecht: Well, you did a really good job of teaching, like the scripting, but not being scripted. That was one thing I learned really well. So, you know, Jamie, you mentioned that we are very comfortable on camera. Typically, I am in small settings, but I don't usually do presentations like you do. So for me to get on video and do something, it's a lot more stressful. I'm like trying to actually put together a video. I did that one, Stephen that I shared with you where I was like okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this myself. You know, it's not just for my team, but and Stephen teaches how to script it out and read your script, but not read your script, you know, be organized, have your thoughts organized so that you can present well. I think we even talked about the fact that you might record it 500 times the first time. That’s okay, then you can you completely get those nerves out and learn how to do it more smoothly.
Stephen Pope: Yeah, and there's actually a trick. So, you know, you can you can script out the video and then you can put the script up to your camera, and then you can just read it line by line. If you make a mistake, you can just go back and reread that line and then your editor can just come in and just like clip out the pieces that were mistakes and they can splice it together. It might sound like well, how's that going to look? But it actually ends up looking fine. Sometimes you can't even tell that clips were taken out. But even if they are, like if it's something on LinkedIn, nobody really cares. It just looks like your message is really succinct. I think the reason why that's good is because when you do script something out, when you take a little bit of time to articulate the value that you're trying to present, like when you're ultimately in, what I always look at is like when I sit down and I read a script, I'm saying I want the viewer to walk away and say, wow, I'm really glad that I watch that. So I go into it thinking that and then I think about how am I actually taking them from one place to another? And then how do I bring a little bit of context to what I'm going to say before I say it? And then that way, when I go on video to present my idea, I feel like it has a lot of power to it and I'm focused on helping somebody. So then I'm not really focused in my own head. I'm not worried about how I look because I'm helping somebody. I've got like a reason and a purpose behind what I'm doing. Having that purpose, having the clarity of your message and feeling like it's powerful makes it a lot easier to go on camera because you have a purpose. It's not just about you.
Jamie Nau: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I try to avoid scripted stuff. It makes me super nervous. I've always been terrible with the script. But what I try to do is bullet points, like I know these are the five topics I'm going to hit. Within those topics, I did it five times every time would sound a little different. Then the other part that's always really helpful for me is just real stories in there. You know, if you're telling the story then you know that's a good five minutes or six minutes of something you've told a thousand times. Again, a couple of words maybe different here or there, but like at least you can get from beginning to end with a similar path. That's always been super helpful for me in terms of scripting, because I always remember in high school once we had to read from a page of paper and I don't mind speaking in public, but when I had to read this paper, I was so nervous and I was fumbling over words and just doing awful. I always think back to that. Just something I've never been good at is having a script to follow.
Stephen Pope: Yeah actually that's a great point because stories are a good way to kind of give yourself a framework to walk through without a script. I often tell people as well, when you think about the story, try to keep in mind making them the hero in that story so that they can relate to it. So like, this is one thing that if people are listening, there's a book called Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. He talks a lot about all of that experience. He talks about telling stories, but he frames it in such a way that it's like not necessarily your story. I mean, it is your story, but you're kind of interweaving the person you're trying to help into that story so that they can kind of see themselves and they can relate to you. Then as you start to tell the story instead of trying to remember step by step of what you're going to say, you're really just remembering an event or something and just kind of reiterating that and trying to tie in the person that you're envisioning watching it. Tying them into that so that they can relate to it. They kind of see you as the expert, and then they see you as someone that could be a guide to help them get to where they need to be.
Kelly Schuknect: We talked about video and how you’ve got to get out there and do it, but why? Talk that a little bit about that. How does it benefit someone on LinkedIn? I mean, I would say that's where you have worked on it. We've worked on YouTube specifically. But how does that help a business owner with their marketing goals?
Stephen Pope: Well the main results that I get is that when I start talking to somebody, well, I'll say this. A lot of times people just reach out to me. So when they do, they'll say hey, I've seen your videos. I've seen them for a while actually. What's interesting too, is that the people that reach out are not necessarily the people that like or comment on the post. So I'll post a video. I post two or three videos a week. I'm going to probably be publishing more now that I've kind of got my processes down. But people will just reach out to me and say hey, I've been I watching your videos. I've seen your posts. I'd like to talk to you about your services. The main thing that they always say is that it feels like I know you. It’s a little bit weird sometimes because you don't know them at all. You've never been introduced to them. They never liked your posts. They never commented on your posts. It's just this person saying they know you. I think that's the power that video ultimately has.
Kelly Schuknecht: Yeah and you did mention that at the beginning. I just think that's a really key piece because I think that people will connect with you in that way. You cannot post at all on social media. You can post a little text, or post links to articles, whatever. But when they actually see you and hear you and get to know your personality, I think it helps people connect with you in a totally different way. For us, I mean, it's made a significant difference this last year with us converting our podcast to be not just audio, but also a video version. Then we launched webinars, which we then put on YouTube and then, you know, you've kind of taught some of the best practices of repurposing the content that we do. So when we do a video, we can chop it up, like you said earlier. Then use that in little snippets on LinkedIn. I mean, it's just it really has made a big difference for us that people really get to know the heart of Summit and who we are behind the scenes. We just increased our website traffic. That's increased our new clients that have signed on. So it's been it's been great for us.
Stephen Pope: Yeah, totally. Another thing that's interesting too, and you might not think about this or even see why it's very valuable, but you end up not talking to the people that you shouldn't talk to anyway. So people that are not going to vibe with you, they can kind of see that and it kind of filters them out before they ever talk to you. Because when you think about like if you're doing video and doing all these things, I mean, like you really want to be talking to the right people. So when it attracts the right people and it kind of pushes the people that would never work with you anyway for any number of different reasons, it pushes them away. They go they go elsewhere, which is great. That's the best thing for both people. It's just kind of like accelerating the process of either pulling people towards you or pushing them away, and then it also scales too, right? Because it's like you do one video and like you said, you can push it to YouTube, you can push it to a link, then you can put it on your website. When you're talking to a prospect, you can remember that you did this video. You can send it to him, almost hand deliver that video to them. If you do a podcast with someone else, you can give that podcast to the people that were the guest and they can share it. There’s just all these different creative ways that you can use video content. The other thing too, is just like even your own network. So even if we're not talking social media, you're just talking about your networking groups that you've been a part of for a long time. They're going to see you differently too, because you're going to be one of the only people that's doing this kind of innovative work. It's going to strengthen your own local network as well, because they're going to see you on LinkedIn. They might not like or comment on it, just because people sometimes just don't for whatever reason. But it just strengthens all these different things and it just makes you stand out to pretty much everybody.
Jamie Nau: Yeah I'm not as involved in the sales process as I used to be, but where I've really noticed it is in our interviewing process. So when someone I was interviewing they do come in like they already know me a lot of times because they're just doing that research. Even if it's like a day of research. I mean, if I'm interviewing with someone today the first thing they find is all our videos out there. They know who they are meeting with. They've watched videos of me already talking. So it just feels very comfortable from the beginning. I also think it does weed out a little bit of those people that are like oh, I see your culture and are like, wow, this is who they are. They're pretty relaxed or they're you know, this is how they do things. So I think that's really, really smart. Yeah.
Kelly Schuknecht: Or if they're afraid of video, you're going to know. If you look at our stuff, you're going to be on video. You've got to be comfortable with it if you're going to work here.
Jamie Nau: So that's where I've seen a lot of it. Then on the flip side of that, to your point that not a lot of companies are doing it. You know, a lot of times when we take on a new client, that's kind of where I get involved, the internal kickoff meeting. So I’ll go to the website and I don't see a lot of video on there. I see a lot of written text and I see a lot of articles. But I don't really ever see a video of something before I actually meet with them for that first time. So I think your point is well taken that I think there are a lot of companies not doing it yet.
Stephen Pope: Just a little bit of video will prompt somebody, because sometimes we write a lot of stuff on our website and to be honest, people do not read it. They just don't. I mean, if they're serious about your service they will read it in detail. But if they've been able to see a couple of clips, they are going to be like, oh, these guys are cool. Like, they have some interesting things to say. Then they'll dig deeper into that text. But you'll see a lot of websites where there's just a lot of text and just people don't dig into it. One other thing I was going to mention on the video end. We kind of touched on this, but like when you start to do go on video, there's a lot of just like personal growth you go through. So you just get better at articulating your points in general. You just become more confident in general. I think that alone, outside of all the business stuff is huge because the next time you go on stage, if that ever happens again, you know, just the personal growth you get by forging a path through and getting on video and kind of just being uncomfortable it opens up so many other like just personal doors. Just even for me as a kind of a little bit more of the introverted side, that's been a huge thing for me.
Kelly Schuknecht: Reminds me of Zach, who has been on this podcast before. He's a big Brene Brown fan, and the vulnerability Ted Talk that she had he actually assigned for me to watch that. That is it exactly. You have to get pushed through that vulnerability to grow. And it's hard. I mean, I for me it is not a natural skill set for me. But Jody can just get on anytime, anywhere, talk about anything. It a challenge for me. But pushing through that it really just opens you up for other opportunities and just more networking, which I have really enjoyed on LinkedIn and just kind of what I've learned from you Stephen.
Stephen Pope: It's funny too because when I look back at last Christmas or 2019. I was making a commitment to do video on LinkedIn. I remember being just like deathly afraid, and looking back it was so silly
Kelly Schuknecht: Well now if anyone looked at any of your videos they would never think that of you because you are so natural in your videos.
Stephen Pope: Which is cool. I think anybody can really do that. I think something to just keep in mind as well when you first start posting videos, most people don't even see it. Which is the funny thing. Like you post on social media but not everyone sees your stuff. When you do it long term, people will see it. Really the first couple of people that will see it is just like your friends and family. So you just have to be ready to not care about what they think because they ultimately aren’t going to be buying your services, most likely. So it doesn't really matter what they think. Like, why are you doing that? You’re there to serve a purpose for your clients and to give them value. So keep focused on helping who you think you can help, not what your friends and family are going to say when you post on Facebook or LinkedIn or anything like that, because their opinion doesn't matter. Even the good stuff that they say, you know, good job. I mean, maybe that helps you a little bit, but that isn't who you're trying to really serve. So you got to be focused on who can you help.
Jamie Nau: Yeah, I wish my mom’s opinion matter more than sales because my mom is always like oh, you're doing such a nice job.
All: Laughing [in audible]
Jamie Nau: So we've talked a lot about video, which I think has been very helpful. We're getting a little close on time here, so I don't want to miss any things that people are going to learn about as they come to you or other things people should be thinking about in terms of marketing.
Stephen Pope: Well I think LinkedIn is a great place, especially for anybody who's doing business. Being active there Yeah, I could talk for a couple of hours on LinkedIn strategy. But the easiest thing for me to say really is that LinkedIn is a social network. It's a networking platform. So a lot of times people go there and when they do post, they're posting links to their blog. They just show up and post something thing and then they leave. I always like to tell people is like, okay. So if you go into a networking group or an in-person networking group and you came in and you just said something and then you left, you wouldn’t get much value out of that. So the best way to do it, I could go into a lot of different tactical things. But when you think about LinkedIn, how can you apply the things you know how to do in person into a social platform and come with that mindset to interact with people. Have some purpose, provide value to people, talk to people, make connections. Don't try to pitch them just like you wouldn't, I mean some people do that at networking events, but it doesn't usually go very well, right? When you think about a networking group, who are the people that do that the best? It's the person that runs the group, the person that puts all the effort into putting the group together. It's the people that are referring, people talking and giving advice and saying, do this, do that. It's not the people that are sitting on the sidelines just waiting for something to happen. So take the same approach with LinkedIn. Don’t be the person that's just like hey, will you do business with me? Everyone's just tunes that out.
Kelly Schuknecht: Yeah. I was going to say I think that's why you were such a great fit for us. At Summit, we don't cold call, or do that cold email approach, that hard sell. That's just not who we are. You really teach that more authentic, really natural engagement. I mean I say natural, it takes work and you teach people how to do that work, but how to make it authentic and not to be the person who's, you know, requesting connections on LinkedIn and then immediately sending an email. I don't know how that works for anybody. Nobody likes those. But building true engagement with people. I've met several people in your mastermind group that, you know, now I engage with every single week on LinkedIn. It really helps just increase your connections.
Stephen Pope: Yeah, totally. I think the best way that I help people get into the right mindset is just to say instead of thinking about lead generation, you're thinking about relationship generation. Even that's probably a little bit too robotic. You're just there to create relationships with people. Instead of trying to get clients to just play the long game, create a lot of connections, try to give them something when you can and just network and do what you normally would. People might say, well okay, well then if it's just another networking group why not just stick with my local one? The thing I would say there is that, well most networking groups are actually pretty small, right? So when I join this this networking group, there's 40 people on a Zoom call and you're there for an hour and a half and you have like 30 seconds to say something. Whereas on LinkedIn you can really kind of network at scale, it's like you can build trust at scale. When I make a post every day, it reaches a thousand to ten thousand people every day. Where else can you go where you make a post? It's like you're on stage talking to that many people every day. That's a pretty insane ability and it's there. It's there to be taken advantage of. So I just encourage people to seize on the opportunity.
Jamie Nau: Yeah. I think that's a great point. Hopefully people that I'm connected to on LinkedIn are listening to this. I can't tell you how many of those cold messages I get a day or it's just like, oh, thanks for connecting, let's do the service. Like well, I just met you. Let's have a little dating period here first. The way I look at it is like I think those authentic relationships are important. If I'm connected to you and we're posting material and you're aware of what I do, when you're looking for that service you're going to come to me. That’s kind of the way I look at it is again. When I'm looking for that payroll service, I'm going to come to that company that I see posting those things all the time. I think that's a much better way to go. I appreciate that tip and I'm sure our listeners do as well.
Stephen Pope: Then one final thing on LinkedIn is, I do find with all these platforms it's like they do grow, they do become saturated. People get tired of them and new ones appear. So one of the things I always do here is just like, well am too late for LinkedIn? The one thing I always like to say is even if you never got a client from LinkedIn, or using social media, using these platforms, these are skills that are not going to disappear. These are things that are not going to disappear and the skills to use them and knowing how to maneuver through them and leverage them is only going to get more intense. So the people that are starting now and learning how are going to be several legs up from the people that don't. Like I said, it's only going to get more intense. So if it's not LinkedIn, it's going to be something else. You can transfer these skills as you go and you learn new things. So to me it's a no brainer. And COVID just accelerated everything. It was already happening but in some ways, COVID should be a wakeup call that this is only going to get more intense. It's going to get more competitive. People are going to be creating more and more video content. So if you're not, you are really going to be limited in terms of, like how you grow. If you want to be a big business that continues to grow at a rate with some sort of scale then you're going to need to learn how to use these things.
Jamie Nau: Yeah, great. I appreciate that. Usually I ask for final thought. I think that was a great final thought. Kelly, any final thoughts from you?
Kelly Schuknecht: No, I think that's great. Stephen, you have been just a huge asset for us. We have been really, really lucky to have gone through your course and be a part of your group. We appreciate that.
Stephen Pope: I appreciate those comments. It's been great working with you guys. I've actually been working with you guys for a long time with my previous business and everything. So you guys have been a great inspiration and it's been great working with you guys, thanks for having me on.
Jamie Nau: Great. Real quick, how do people get in touch with you?
Stephen Pope: Yes, so you can obviously find me on LinkedIn. You can also go to my website. It's at www.sjplabs.com. On LinkedIn you can look up Steve Gregory Pope and I will pop up.
Jamie Nau: Awesome. appreciate you coming in. Great show. Thank you.